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A Cheyenne Voice: The Complete John Stands in Timber Interviews (The Civilization of the American Indian Series, Band 270), by John Stands In Timber
Ebook-Download A Cheyenne Voice: The Complete John Stands in Timber Interviews (The Civilization of the American Indian Series, Band 270), by John Stands In Timber
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Pressestimmen
"A Cheyenne Voice is the most vital cache of raw data to appear in a generation dealing with an American Indian tribe of such renown. John Stands In Timber's insights into Cheyenne history and culture reflect the very soul of the man, and Margot Liberty's interviews with him have become our treasure."--Jerome A. Greene, author of Morning Star Dawn: The Powder River Expedition and the Northern Cheyennes, 1876, and Washita: The U.S. Army and the Southern Cheyennes, 1867-1869
Über den Autor und weitere Mitwirkende
John Stands In Timber served as tribal historian for the Northern Cheyennes.
Produktinformation
Gebundene Ausgabe: 552 Seiten
Verlag: ARTHUR H CLARK CO; Auflage: New (7. Oktober 2013)
Sprache: Englisch
ISBN-10: 9780806143798
ISBN-13: 978-0806143798
ASIN: 0806143797
Größe und/oder Gewicht:
18,4 x 3,2 x 25,4 cm
Durchschnittliche Kundenbewertung:
Schreiben Sie die erste Bewertung
Amazon Bestseller-Rang:
Nr. 1.968.573 in Fremdsprachige Bücher (Siehe Top 100 in Fremdsprachige Bücher)
A Hard read because much of the material has obscure flaws that demand the reader be skeptical about the content. Major consideration must be given to the Christian bias of the story teller, Stands in Timber often quotes book sources, how much has that influenced the accounts, obviously there is an overshadowing of White/Frontier acceptance for the story. Often Stands in Timber explains that his sourcing for the story is limited and the reader can NOT be sure of who and what changes that brought to the story. Barring the historical before Sands in Timber's time, the period where he was present is most interesting. Much better than "Cheyenne Memories". Thanks, Harry!
He was over 80 years old and was recognized as the Tribal Historian. I would sit with him after dinner in his home and he would tell us stories of 'the old days'. One particular story was his retelling of what happened when thousands of braves from 'many different tribes' rode down on Custer. "American history tells the wrong story,' he said, "I am going to tell you what really happened.' He spoke about Red Cloud as a 'great friend' of my grandfathers'. He was Cheyenne and Red Cloud was Sioux. 'Many of my people were afraid of the Sioux because they would raid our camps and kill our young men.' But Red Cloud was trusted and they both rode together and would fight to protect our land.' During the summer of 1967 he told me of a 'white woman' who came to record his stories from Washington DC. I wrote in my journal about him telling me, 'My stories need to be told.... so I am speaking into a recorder and the white woman will keep them for history.'This is her book. I met her twice and we had conversations about our experiences. I was with John when he died. His grandson came running to our trailer telling us he needed us. We ran down the hill and as I entered the home I was directed into his bedroom. He was breathing hard. He asked me to pray for him. During my prayer I felt him take his last breath. I began to sob because I felt my faith was not enough... I felt it was my fault.... After 50+ years I have a tender place for John Stands In timber and am very grateful for the opportunity I had to know the man. This book is special to me.
An outstanding story.
Great historical/cultural reading. Traditional Native.
This book contains transcriptions (essentially raw data) of the original interviews that Margot Liberty conducted with John Stands In Timber in the mid-to-late 1950s, which, after much editing, became the book titled Cheyenne Memories. The interviews in A Cheyenne Voice are broken down into 330 sub-sections, some long (a few pages) and some just a paragraph or a page. I have only been reading the book for a few days now but really enjoy reading Stands In Timber's stories (although he is often a little hard to follow, thus the four star rating; I would rate the book 3 stars but that seems a little unfair towards the spirit of the work). I do have a complaint directed at Raymond J. DeMallie's foreword. He writes: [John Stands In Timber] "was of the early reservation generation, educated, and a firm convert to Christianity. He returned from boarding school [where one would logically think he received his Christian brainwashing >IF< DeMallie's statement is accurate] to the Northern Cheyenne Reservation in 1905 with a keen interest in learning about his people's culture and history. Yet his was a historian's interest, a compulsion to preserve knowledge of the past for the benefit of future generations. He himself did not believe in traditional Cheyenne conceptions of the sacred and had no desire to participate in the perpetuation of sacred rituals, but he had a great longing to understand them." Margot Liberty, in her introduction, does not reinforce these statements by DeMallie. Additionally, the book opens with this statement by Stands In Timber: "I can remember from 1895 up to the present day the ways of changing of their [the Cheyennes'] living. I am always sorry that the present generation is not like those people sixty years ago. This change came from the ways of the white man that they taught the Indians, and the Indians tried to live up to." It seems to me that Stands In Timber's comment directly opposes what DeMallie wrote. Also, on page 20 Stands In Timber clearly states that he believes in the old-time stories (unless he was lying). Like I said, I only started the book a few days ago, so maybe Stands In Timber at some point will make a statement such as, "Mind you, I am a Christian and think my ancestors were wrong in their beliefs," but so far, the vibe is completely the opposite.Having made these statements, I wish to add that I find it highly offensive that Christianity has infected so many other religions that today we can never know for sure the old rituals and the old beliefs. DeMallie wrote a book about Sioux Indian religion and it includes a healthy does of Christianity. In other words, the book should really be called, "How Christianity Infected and Became Entwined With the Sioux Indian Religion Until Today We Have No Way to Know for Sure Just What the Old Time Sioux Indian Religion Was." The missionaries performed cultural suicide upon the native inhabitants of this country and took advantage of the Indian's will to include and adapt to other ideas and beliefs. The biggest irony is that Christianity is not only untrue, but less superior to the religions it was destroying. The Indians were happy to worship and to add outside influences to their own. To them something like, "believe in my religion and my god or you will go to hell" was unheard of. Listen up. Jesus, if he was real, was just a man. No different than any crazy person on the NYC subway preaching to a captive audience. People who believe there is a personal god who really cares about them and what they think have led humanity wrong for most of its history. Get an astronomy book. Get a good book about evolution. Discover just how vast this universe is, how hard it is to fathom space and time, discover how we evolved to our current form. Discover that we are not the center of the universe and nothing but a speck in the cosmos. The people who wrote the Old Testament and New Testament had no idea about the world as it really is and their fake-holy books prove it. Those books do nothing more than represent the times they were written in (when we should expect so much more if they are what they proclaim to be!). You won't find anything like: "The earth is not flat"; "The earth rotates around the sun"; "There are millions of other suns and planets"; "Don't bet on horses, there is no such thing as a sure thing." Instead we get stuff like don't mix cheese with meat and stone your children if they are rebellious. Oh, I guess that last one solved those difficult teenage years. I am sick of hearing about Christianity. I can't even commute to work without being subjected to proselytizing (surely by someone who never read a science book in his/her entire life). So Mr. DeMallie, what is it with you and Christianity? If I have been unfair or misunderstood you, hey, I'm open to being corrected.Getting back to this book... it's interesting but also hard to understand what Stands In Timber is saying a lot of the time. In any event, we owe a big thank you to Margot Liberty for having the foresight to conduct these interviews.November 26, 2013As usual (based on the number of not helpful votes above), it looks like I don't write popular reviews. People are so wed to their religious beliefs that they can't see things for what they are. I stated above that Stands In Timber was likely religiously brainwashed while in boarding school. On page 280 of this book he states: "I was taught in the Catholic and other churches [when I was young] to stay in your own religion that you believe, don't take on some other." Well, Stands In Timber was indoctrinated into Christianity in boarding school and then made to feel that he would be doing something wrong by also accepting the ways of his ancestors, though he doesn't seem to have taken that entirely to heart. Of course, no doubt, other Indians in the same situation did just that. For me, this justifies what I wrote above, that Christianity has infected native religions, and has sought to turn Indians of a given era against the ways of their ancestors. It has been (and continues to be) a gross corruption of native ways and a crime against humanity.December 17, 2013pp. 415-416Stands In Timber states, in regard to why the missionaries are against the Sun Dance:"[Father Marion] said this: a lot of people [Indians] believe we are against them, but we are not--we are against sin that draws them away from God into false beliefs. The devil is doing it. We want to save the people from wrong." Then for himself, Stands In Timber states: "Some of them [the missionaries] were against it even when I went to look on at the Sun Dance. I told them I am not against [the Sun Dance], I don't believe it, and I am not a member. Those that look on do not belong; if I look on it doesn't meant I belong." Okay, this helps clarify what I wrote above about DeMallie's Foreword. Of course, I have serious issues with what Stands In Timber said. Had he not gone away to school as a youngster, he may never have been brainwashed. The missionaries were quite misguided and uninformed about reality, replacing one superstition they considered inferior and false, with their own brand of nonsense. Unfortunately, they affected thousands of others in the process. Despite Stands In Timber's words that he didn't believe in the religion of his ancestors, I think that any fair reading of this book will show that he didn't discard it entirely. And even if he did, he did so under unfair conditions. I feel that DeMallie is just too accepting of the entire missionary-Indian relationship and should be more critical when he talks about it. In any event, so far as the modern world is concerned, we should have moved past these ancient and outdated beliefs. I work in a religious environment (though my work is not of a religious nature, which I would be unable to perform). I daily see very young children being taught religion before they old enough to think critically and before they learn science or the scientific method. Thoughts are implanted into their heads. Most will never be able to (entirely) break away from it. This is what happened to Stands In Timber. For the adults committing this atrocity upon the mind's of the young in the 21st century, it's nothing to be proud of.
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